Episode 54: Can Israel be both Sparta and Athens? With Dan Schueftan

Ask Haviv Anything

Haviv Rettig Gur

History

4.9 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 23 October 2025

⏱️ 87 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

The Gaza war may now be over. But Hamas remains entrenched in the half of Gaza from which the IDF has withdrawn.

Many are hopeful that this marks a new and better day for Gaza, but it's hard to see how Gaza moves forward to the better future envisioned in the Trump peace plan as long as Hamas continues to rule there.

Prof. Dan Schueftan, a preeminent and blunt-spoken Israeli national security scholar who helped craft the original 2005 Israeli withdrawal from Gaza joins the podcast to talk about the meaning of this moment - his lessons from the Gaza withdrawal, how Israeli strategy must account for what he calls the "barbarism" of its enemies, the failures of Israeli strategy that led to October 7 and the resiliency of Israeli society since the massacre. He offers a sober analysis of what the future holds for Gaza.

This episode is sponsored by Aaron and Donna Horowitz and Mitch and Sherri Padnos, who asked us (we swear) to say, "With heartfelt gratitude, we thank Haviv for being the most trusted and insightful voice on the Middle East—helping us make sense of complex realities and offering clarity in a time that so often feels overwhelming. Your work doesn’t just inform us; it helps us cope, reflect, and stay connected to what matters most."

They dedicated the episode to their lone soldiers Alexa Horowitz and Ethan Padnos and to all lone soldiers from Israel and around the world who commit themselves to the defense of Israel, both during their active service and in miluim (reserve duty), whose courage, sacrifice, and devotion inspire us every day.

They also asked us to make special mention of the heavy psychological toll this war has exacted on those who serve. Since the war began, dozens of soldiers have taken their own lives—an unbearable reminder that the wounds of conflict are not only physical but also emotional and invisible. May their memories be a blessing, and may their loss push us all to care for the mental health and wellbeing of every soldier, veteran and family touched by this war.

If you like what we do here, please join us on Patreon to support our work: https://www.patreon.com/AskHavivAnything⁠.

If you would like to sponsor an episode, please email us at haviv@askhavivanything.com⁠.

Musical intro by Adam Ben Amitai.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Ask Habib Anything. Thank you so much for joining us.
0:10.0	This is going to be, I've been looking forward to it, a deep dive into the strategic situation in Gaza today.
0:18.0	But not just this moment, in a historical view, to take the long arc
0:24.2	of things and to really kind of understand where we stand what the potential is for the future,
0:28.9	how we got to this place. We're recording on October 25th. Hamas is slowly trickling out the
0:35.3	hostage bodies and taking over Gaza and suppressing opposition.
0:40.0	J.D. Vance was just in Israel after Donald Trump. Nobody quite knows what the future holds.
0:44.2	We're going to dive into it today. My guest is Professor Dan Shifton of Haifa University,
0:50.8	somebody very, very well-known in Israel, not just to the public, but also to the
0:55.4	strategy planning elite. I'm going to pretend that's a group of people, and that group of people
1:01.8	consults with him constantly and has consulted with him over the years on Gaza. And so we're
1:07.1	going to really take a deep dive with a real expert. So let's get into it.
1:11.4	Before we get into it, I want to tell you that this episode is sponsored by Aaron and Donna Horowitz
1:16.6	and by Mitch and Sherry Padnos.
1:20.1	They asked me to read this, even though they know it's embarrassing.
1:24.4	With heartfelt gratitude, we thank Javiv for being the most trusted and insightful voice on the Middle East,
1:29.7	helping us make sense of complex realities and offering clarity in a time that so often feels overwhelming.
1:35.6	Your work doesn't just inform us. It helps us cope, reflect, and stay connected to what matters most.
1:41.6	Please don't do that again, and thank you very, very much.
1:47.4	They also dedicated it to two lone soldiers,
1:50.2	Alexa Horowitz and Ethan Padnos,
1:51.8	and to all lone soldiers,
	...

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