You mentioned the institutional pressures that came to bear on your ouster. I'd like to hear more

about that specifically, including the role that Halel played on campus and students who were

involved in Hillel and ringing the alarm bell or surveilling you and flagging you for censorship.

Yeah. And I know you had Zach Foster on some time back, and he spoke a little bit about Hulel from the perspective of a student. But I was actually not

aware of Halele when I was a college student or when I was a grad student. I didn't really become

aware of what Hale was until I was a faculty member who was teaching't really become aware of what Hulel was until I was a

faculty member who was teaching about Palestine. It was just sort of in the back of my mind.

But essentially, Halele International is, without, you know, boring your listeners too much,

is an organization that started over 100 years ago as a Jewish organization on college and university campuses.

It was a space for Jewish life. It was a space for religious gathering. You could like meet

your spouse there. It was a cultural and religious center. And in 1980, you start to see a shift

in which Palal International as a international organization and not just these campus

organizations starts to really align itself with Israel, with Zionist ideals, with Zionist

donors. And over the past few decades, the organization has become incredibly powerful.

And one of the ways it's able to do its work is that as it partners

with the Israeli government, as it partners with the Hasbara machine through Hasbara

fellowships, I mean, they're not even secretive about the work that they're doing. They hide behind

this guise of anti-Semitism. So anyone who criticizes Halel is accused of anti-Semitism.

And anyone who speaks about Palestine, who criticizes the state of Israel, who critiques

Zionism as a political ideology, is activating a network on a lot of college and university campuses

in which students have actually been trained to surveil their faculty,

to surveil their peers, to ensure that these conversations are shut down.

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