Hello, I'm Adrienne Dahl.

And I'm Moira Donigan.

Whether we like it or not, we're in bed with the right.

So, Adrian, today we are joined by Erin Carmon, friend of the pod, friend of the claimant

Institute, friend of mine, and a really gifted writer at New York Magazine,

who is the author of this fantastic profile, one of the best, I think, of this election season.

What is Usha Vance thinking here to decipher the enigmatic would-be second lady who on the one hand seems like the product

and the beneficiary of a lot of sort of classical second-wave feminist gains.

And on the other hand, has allied herself to a man really trying to undo the past 60 years

of gender politics.

Arend, thank you so much for being with us.

I'm so thrilled to be here.

Thanks for having me.

So something that was really interesting to me about this profile is that Usha gave you,

like, nothing to work with.

Right?

Like she is so silent and so reserved and so poker-faced about the

contradictions of her own life that you had to do what I thought was a really skillful

write-around. Can you tell us just about the process of trying to decode this person?

Sure. So you're right that she's somebody who has exercised

a tremendous amount of control over her image. She's only given one speech on the campaign trail this

year, which was at the RNC, obviously a very high profile speech, but just purely focused on her

...