There is hope for us yet.

We are young, we are away.

I am Holly Whitaker.

And I am Laura McCowen. And this is Home Podcast.

So we're actually recording this intro right after we did the interview. This is an interview with, if any of you

are familiar, kind of with what happened. Laura and I, in our first steps episode said that essentially that no one that we knew that we

thought people could get sober without God.

And one of our listeners who was a reader of both of our blogs and listened to our podcast

and she wrote me an email that essentially you know called us on on this

deeply exclusive and horrific

Slip on our parts and so so yeah so we interviewed her her name was Alice in a blog post that she wrote on my website and then she came out She since decided to come out her name is Catherine Gray. She's since decided to come out. Her name is Catherine Gray. She's from Bruges and

she's a writer and she's working on her book and she's

Oh, so lovely. Yeah, she's somebody that Laura I know are friends with and so yeah so this is an

interview that we had with her just exploring some of the same things we did in the blog post but also just

having the conversation here where it actually started many months ago on the

closet of me on the floor of my sister's closet if you recall.

I remember the moment that we did it.

I actually remember the exact moment that we had that first conversation.

Oh, I do too. I do too. Yeah and she was she's this is a great conversation I

I really enjoyed it. She's lovely and articulate and brilliant.

and so yeah this was this was a which was an important one and a conversation that

needed to be had so I'm glad it's out there.

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