Greetings dear listeners. This is Jonah Goldberg and this is another edition of the Remnant Podcast.

We're doing things a little bit differently this week. I am actually in the Placial New York City headquarters of National Review,

the belly of the beast of the entire National Review Empire.

And we had a wonderful event last night remembering William F. Buckley, who died 10 years ago this week.

And I figured since I was here, I would take advantage of the fact that I'm here and grab, I guess, my now old friend.

We've known each other for a very long time. Andy McCarthy, who writes for National Review High Andy.

Hi Jonah.

And so Andy's one of my favorite people. And he's one of the most useful people in this whole rigourmoral about molar collusion, Russia stuff.

But I find my Andy's utility goes much further than that. I don't think I've ever told you this, but one of my rules of thumb is like in the Obama years when some theory came out that Obama was doing something crazy or wild illegal.

Probably true.

Often true. Very often true. I'm not saying it wasn't. But I knew that you wanted it to be true.

But you're also honest about this stuff and the fact that you take you there. So my view was Andy will always press the envelope in terms of believing these things are possible.

But whenever he runs into a fact that undermines it, he always is honest about it and pulls it back.

And it's a very useful sort of gut check kind of thing is like if McCarthy says this is a problem.

Maybe I'll disagree with him. Maybe I won't. But if he says it's not true, then I know it's not true because he wants this to be true.

Right.

And it's a useful. It's thought like one of the things that National Review is very good at right is we test these propositions, but we don't run away with them.

Well, I think it's probably from my old life though, you know, because when you get stuff wrong, I was a prosecutor for a much longer time than most people are a prosecutor for.

I mean, even in my office, it's three, four years people are in an I stay for almost 20. And the culture is you're not paralyzed to avoid admitting error, right?

Because you have to admit errors, right? If you screw something like you have somebody, you know, in custody on bail based on some fact that you've given a court that turns out not to be a fact after you've done investigation.

So to go into a court and tell the judge, you know, that guy you've held for a few months turns out, you know, right? That's a lot of that's a lot harder to do than anything.

So, but you know, just so readers know you didn't start out as weren't you like a Marshall or something?

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