Our guest today is Dr. Ken Forbus, the Walter P. Murphy Professor of Computer Science and a Professor of Education at Northwestern University. Joining Dr. Ken Ford to co-host today’s interview is Dr. James Allen, who was IHMC’s associate director until he retired a few years ago. James is a founding fellow of the American Association for Artificial Intelligence and a perfect fit for today’s discussion with Dr. Forbus, who, like James, is an AI pioneer.  Back in 2022, James was named a fellow by the Association for Computational Linguistics, an organization that studies computational language processing, another field he helped pioneer. Dr. Forbus also is a Fellow of the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence and was the inaugural winner of the Herbet A. Simon Prize for Advances in Cognitive Systems. He is well-known for his development of the Structure Mapping Engine. In artificial intelligence and cognitive science, the Structure Mapping Engine is a computer simulation of analogy and similarity comparisons that helped pave the way for computers to reason more like humans. Show Notes: [00:03:07] Ken opens the interview with Dr. Forbus by asking if it is true that he had an unusual hobby for a nerdy kid growing up. [00:04:18] James mentions that Dr. Forbus’ family moved often when he was younger and asks how that affected him. [00:05:18] Ken mentions that when Dr. Forbus was in high school, he filled his free time reading about psychology and cognition before eventually coming across some articles on AI. Ken asks Dr. Forbus to talk about this experience and what happened next. [00:07:49] James asks Dr. Forbus if he remembers the first computer he owned. [00:09:17] Ken asks Dr. Forbus if there was anything, other than its reputation, that led him to attend MIT. [00:10:09] James mentions that for the past few decades, Dr. Forbus has been working on developing “human like” AI systems. While much of AI research and development has been focused on meeting the standard of the Turing test, James asks Dr. Forbus why he is not a fan of the Turing test. [00:12:24] Ken mentions that Dr. Forbus received his Ph.D. from MIT in 1984, the same year that Apple released the first Macintosh, which was rolled out with a famous Super Bowl ad. This computer was the first successful mouse driven personal computer with a graphical interface. Ken asks Dr. Forbus what he remembers about that ad, and what his reaction to it was at the time. [00:13:22] James mentions that 1984 was also the year that Dr. Forbus made his first splash in the AI world with his paper on qualitative process theory. James goes on to explain that at the time, qualitative reasoning regarding quantities was a major problem for AI. In his paper, Dr. Forbus proposed qualitative process theory as a representational framework for common sense physical reasoning, arguing that understanding common sense physical reasoning first required understanding of processes and their effects and limits. James asks Dr. Forbus to give an overview of this paper and its significance. [00:18:10] Ken asks Dr. Forbus how it was that he ended up marrying one of his collaborators on the Structure Mapping Engine project, Dedre Gentner. [00:19:14] James explains that Dedre’s Structure Mapping Theory explains how people understand and reason about relationships between different situations, which is central to human cognition. James asks Dr. Forbus how Dedre’s theory was foundational for the Structure Mapping Engine (SME). [00:25:19] Ken mentions how SME has gone through a number of changes and improvements over the years, as documented in Dr. Forbus’ 2016 paper “Extending SME to handle large scale cognitive modeling.” Ken asks, as a cognitive model, what evidence Dr. Forbus has used to argue for the psychological and cognitive plausibility of SME. [00:30:00] Ken explains that many AI systems rely on deep learning,