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Hey everyone, it's me Carrie.

I want to give you a heads up that this episode of Firebug contains descriptions of violence and sexual assault that might not be suitable for everyone.

So listen at your own discretion.

When reporting a story is complicated as the John Orr case,

it's easy to go down a rabbit hole that leads to a dead end.

Or to an outcome that you didn't quite expect.

Throughout my 30 years of digging into this case,

and the time it took to put this series together,

there was one story we spent a considerable amount of time on

that didn't quite fit into the main arc of the series.

It's a story that shows just how deep investigators back in the 90s went

as they searched for clues to real crimes in Orr's book, Points of Origin.

And it all starts with this man.

...