I'm Kerry Mulligan, the host of I Hear Fear, a new anthology series of terror.

You and I know that the best scary stories are the ones we tell each other in the dark.

So turn off your lights and close your eyes.

Follow I hear fear on the Wundery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm going deep into my wife's family history,

digging up the cold case of her murdered great-grandmother.

And did I mention that I'm looking into whether the murderer was actually the beloved family

patriarch? Binge all episodes of Ghost Story, ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

The Amazing Kate Casey.

Welcome back for another episode of reality life with Kate Casey. In this episode I interviewed Jill

Dugger and her husband Derek Dillard. Jill is known for her appearances on TLC as part of the reality

television shows 19 kids and counting and counting on.

Those shows aired between 2008 and 2017.

And the shows focused on the life of the Dugger family,

a devout independent Baptist family. The show frequently discussed values of purity, modesty and faith in God. Jill is the

author of the New York Times best-selling book,

counting the cost, which was just released.

And in this episode, I interview Jill and Derek

about the book, in which they share their story,

revealing the secrets manipulation and

intimidation behind the show that remained hidden from their fans.

Jill and Derek knew a normal life wasn't possible for them. As star of 19 kids in counting, Jill grew up in front of viewers who were fascinated by her family's way of life. I include myself in that. She was responsible, the second daughter of Jim Bob and Michelle's

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