And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN, the Axviles, with your

host, David Axelrod.

One of the most powerful voices in the black community of Chicago on issues of violence

and guns and all the challenges that those communities face happens to be a white man.

Father Michael Flager, who is the pastor of St. Sabine, a church on the south side of Chicago

and has been for 40 years, is a leader in the anti-violence movement in Chicago, outspoken,

controversial, but passionate and interesting as you can hear for yourself.

Father Michael Flager, old friend.

Yes, sir.

Welcome.

You know, I often tell this story that back in 2004, when I was working for a young

state senator named Barack Obama, who was running for the U.S. Senate, we wanted to put

voices on urban radio to reach the black community because we needed to galvanize that

vote.

And we did a poll and we pulled all these leading figures in the community.

And who should pop up to the top as the most popular person, loved by everyone, no negatives,

was Mike Flager.

And a white guy from the southwest side of Chicago and we'll get into why during this conversation.

But I wanted to start by asking you, how many black people lived in your neighborhood when

you were growing up?

Zero.

I mean, I grew up in the southwest side, a very in-bred sort of, very white, a lot of police

...