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And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN Audio, the Axe Files, with your host David Axelrod.

Peter Baker and Susan Glasser are two of the most respected journalists in Washington.

He has senior White House correspondent for the New York Times, she has the Washington correspondent for the New Yorker.

There also has been a wife and collaborators on a terrific new book, The Man Who Ran Washington, a biography of former secretary of state James A. Baker, one of the most influential political figures of his time.

The new Baker ran five presidential races, so as the clock runs down on campaign 2020, I sat down with Peter Baker, no relation, and Susan Glasser to talk about their work, their book, and the state of play in this most unusual race for the way.

Peter Baker and Susan Glasser, welcome. This is a rare, almost unprecedented, addition episode of the Axe Files, because rarely do I have two people at once, but you guys are exceptional in many different ways, including that you're married.

You just wrote a book together called The Man Who Ran Washington about James Baker. I'm looking forward to talking about that during the course of this conversation.

And you're both incredibly gifted observers of government and politics, Susan U at the New Yorker, and Peter, the apparently White House bureau chief in perpetuity.

They won't let me out. They won't let me out.

I asked Susan if he's ever going to get paroled here. You guys thought you got away to Jerusalem before this administration and Trump got elected.

It must have felt like the Godfather, where just when you thought you were getting out, they dragged you back in.

Absolutely, absolutely.

At this point, we're no longer making post-election plans ever in advance of the election.

So speaking of the election, because I want to take advantage of both of your insights, we had these dueling town halls last night, because the president refused to do a virtual debate.

And so he had his on NBC, Joe Biden, as he had his on ABC. It was interesting, really. And Susan, you wrote about this in New Yorker. Tell me what you saw.

Well, I think you've sort of summed up by Mr. Rogers, which was the, I guess she meant it as an insult, but clearly it's not an insult slung at Joe Biden by one of Trump's advisors.

And then the crazy uncle, which was this incredible exchange between Savannah, got three of the NBC moderator and Donald Trump, in which he was defending his retweeting of an insane conspiracy theory involving President Obama.

And claiming that Osama bin Laden wasn't actually killed after all. And in the course of which Savannah got three says, well, you're not some crazy uncle.

You know, you're, you're the president of United States. So to me, I would shorthand those two town halls as the story of Mr. Rogers versus the crazy uncle.

And the one was a high decibel bar room brawl flip the channel and, you know, they're sort of like this very civilized, you know, policy won conversation about tax rates soothing.

Yeah, oddly soothing.

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