Hi, this is Josh Marshall, and this is the Josh Marshall podcast. I'm here with my

colleague David Tainter. Hello Josh. Hi, how are you?

Good, busy day.

Very busy day.

Once again in the Manafort trial.

Yeah, no, we're, you know, we have a few of our colleagues who are on vacation now.

We have two staffers who are basically tied to the

manifold trial like actually you know in the courtroom every day it's going on and

then and then editors who are fielding their

copy so we got a lot of stuff going on yeah but today we have a lot of you

will know will know of this next guest. Her name's Marcy Wheeler. Again, a lot of you, I'm sure,

have known her name for a very long time. She has a blog called Empty Wheel.

She has been blogging for 13 or 14 years, usually about a mix of sort of

national security, intelligence law enforcement stuff.

I think one of the, a lot of, a lot of people first found out about her riding during the Scooter Libby investigation with

you know Valerie Plame and all that stuff.

And she is very deep now on the Trump-Russia story.

And she just has like an encyclopedic knowledge of all the different moving parts.

I mean, I I like to pride myself and really kind of yeah there's

this part you got to remember that part and stuff and you talked to Marcy like wow what what I've never

heard of that thing right and just a must read a must follow yeah absolutely

absolutely so we are about to talk to Marcy and but before that we are going to tell you about

...