This is not the Christianity I grew up with, but this is the spiritual reality that's coming on us now.

I talked to this exorcist I mentioned in the Vatican said to me, spiritual nature of course

is a vacuum, that if people will not have the God of the Bible, then there's no such place as

neutrality. Inevitably, the dark and the demonic will move in.

Outstanding is a production of The Washington Stand, where you can find news and commentary

from a biblical worldview.

Welcome to Outstanding, where we have critical conversations about the news of the day and the ideas

that shape us.

Today's conversation is going to be more about the ideas that shape us.

I'm your host, Joseph Backholm. And once again, we are going to try to take every thought

captive to the obedience of Christ. And today's exercise is to try to think rightly about the

world that we can't see, or at least the world we can't usually see. We Westerners are fond of our logic

and our science and our evidence. But Christians also believe in a God that created the natural

world and therefore transcends it. Have our attempts to be rational and reasonable, causes us to live in ignorance of the

supernatural world in which we exist. Has that caused us to lose sight of a purpose even? Is it in

our best interest to become more aware of what we can't see? That's the conversation we're

going to have today. And my guest,

Rod Dreher, has done some thinking about it. And he is a New York Times best-selling author.

And he's also written a book on the subject recently called Living in Wonder, Finding Mystery and

Meaning in a Secular Age. Rod, thanks for taking some time today.

It's great to be here, Joseph. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. Well, this topic of wonder, a lot of people, this actually, I think, is a hotter topic,

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