This is Heather DeBros World and now you can live in it two times a week right here on podcast one welcome back everybody.

Well today's guest comes like literally in the nick of time because not only is this something I'm dealing with and every all my friends are dealing with and I need her help desperately.

She's New York Times best selling author Reese's book club pick Eve Rodzki. I'm so so happy that you're here your your wisdom your fair play.

The unicorn space all of it has resonated with me like you can't believe it. I think we all need you more than ever.

Thank you so much for being here.

Oh Heather thank you for having me. It's really a true pleasure. So you know it was interesting because when I first heard about you through Reese.

You know I took a little dive on you I'm reading and I was just I was just blown away how you started the whole fair play movement.

So for people that are just meeting you for the first time you know you you went to Harvard Law School you had years of organizational management experience and you created this game changing approach to helping partners read balance the domestic workload between them and what's so crazy to me is like I think we all know that this is going on and we talk about it to each other.

But for you to kind of pull the the covers off of this thing and have real conversations is really it's incredible tell me like what was your what was what was your aha moment that made you realize this and realize something had to be done.

Thank you and I will say like I always thank Reese because

I'm not a fair player is one of our only nonfiction book club picks and when it first came out people were like what is this book about chores.

It's October of 2019 and I wanted a spooky fiction.

Read and I was like what's spooky what's really spooky is like what's going to happen to your physical mental health of you hold all the mental load right so.

But I also do love thriller so I understood why the audience was confused but I do think the pandemic has now also brought you know a shining light to this Heather in a way that was really hard as I was screaming this from 2011 to 2016 2017 when I started to write because ultimately as you said.

We all know this is happening I was a private figure i'm a lawyer I had no Instagram presence I did not set out in my life to be an expert on the gender division of labor Heather right that wasn't on my third grade right when I want to be when you grew up board I think it said like veterinarian.

They also you know they say like research is me search and so around the time of 2011 when my second son was born a lot of things happened that were sort of a confluence of events the first thing that happened was i'm resident gently gen X I was told I could be anything after Harvard Heather I really thought I was going to be president and senator and a nix city dancer all at once because how could you not my education was helping me escape my working class background I didn't even think about my gender.

But then you know instead of smashing all these glass ceilings really the only thing I was doing 13 years after having these big dreams at Harvard was literally smashing peas for a toddler yeah that was it I feel you yes and around that time because it was my second son Ben had just been born I had a baby at home I was smashing the peas for the toddler we decided to sort of lean into my husband's career because he was making more money than you.

I'm telling you all these false assumptions I had at the time that I don't describe to and at the same time that my husband was soldering and telling me to soldering nothing and making me shoulder all of the unpaid work in our homes because he said well you my time is more valuable because I make more money.

My job the job I was supposed to go back to look I wasn't president and senator but I did like my career I was working at a fortune you know 500 company doing organizational management and governance and behavior design for highly complex families that look like the HBO show succession and you know every all your listeners should feel bad for me.

But what I do for those families is I bring grace and humor and generosity to their most complex decisions and so I like my job. Well it doesn't really matter what it is it's like the statement is you like to like my job and so at the same time that I was being crushed I would I call now the she falls right the invisible work of being the default for every single household and domestic task for my family.

My direct reports are being taken away from me I was told if I wanted to come back to work I'd be pumping in a broom closet and so I felt emotional abandonment not just for my partner but for my workplace and then this is the the clincher Heather I kept hearing from people well just way to you get to school.

Because when your kid is in preschool you know you're going to have more time you can think better you're going to have a social safety net of all these other parents who are going to know you better than anyone's ever known you so I waited and waited and I remember right around that same time I go to a toddler transition program of course it's all women and a couple of gay fathers.

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