Ehud Olmert on Israel's Catastrophic War in Gaza

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 11 June 2025

⏱️ 74 minutes

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Summary

It is impossible to overstate how hellish life in Gaza has been for the past 20 months. The death count is above 50,000 people — more than 15,000 of whom are children — and at least 1.9 million of Gaza’s 2.1 million people have been displaced over and over again. Starvation is rampant. Hospitals are either damaged or closed; there are only 2,000 remaining hospital beds. Nearly two years after the atrocities of Oct. 7, Israel still has no plan for the day after the conflict ends. Instead, it is escalating its assault on what remains of Hamas and seizing territory to expand its security buffer zone. There are reports that the government is considering a plan that would herd the Gaza Strip’s Palestinians into just a small fraction of the territory. In the West Bank, meanwhile, settler violence has increased sharply, and new settlements are moving forward at a record pace. Ehud Olmert, the prime minister of Israel from 2006 to 2009, recently published a searing opinion essay in Haaretz, one of Israel’s most influential newspapers: “Enough Is Enough. Israel Is Committing War Crimes.” He joins me to discuss why he believes Israel’s war in Gaza can no longer be justified, what he finds missing in Israel’s current political leadership and why he has not yet given up hope for a two-state solution. Book Recommendations: The Gates of Gaza by Amir Tibon Thomas Jefferson by Jon Meacham All or Nothing by Michael Wolff Wait Till Next Year by Doris Kearns Goodwin Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick and Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Frankie Martin of the Wilson Center and to Orca Studios.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The I don't think it's possible at this point to overstate how hellish life in Gaza's been over the past 20 months.
0:38.9	The death count is above 50,000 people, more than 15,000 of whom were children.
0:45.3	At least 1.9 million of the 2.1 million Gazans have been displaced, and displaced, and displaced.
0:53.6	Some have been forced to flee their homes, shelters, camps. Some have been forced to flee their homes, shelters, camps,
0:58.0	some 10 times or more. Stavation is everywhere. Some 500,000 people are in a catastrophic
1:05.1	condition of hunger. For 11 weeks, Israel allowed no aid into Gaza. A 171,000 metric tons of food for Gazans just sat there.
1:16.0	Almost half of Gaza's 36 hospitals are destroyed or non-operational.
1:20.9	Many of the rest are barely holding on.
1:23.8	There are only 2,000 hospital beds available for more than 2 million people.
1:28.3	About 60% of all physical structures full stop are damaged or destroyed.
1:34.2	20 months after October 7th, 20 months after this war began, Israel has no plan for the day after,
1:42.0	no theory of who should govern Gaza, and is instead weighing escalation.
1:46.4	The plan being considered would herd more than two million Gazans into a small fraction of the Gaza Strip.
1:52.2	The argument is that this would isolate Hamas, further break its command and control structures.
1:58.3	To the extent such structures still exist, it's really quite hard to see
2:02.8	how more devastation would degrade them. In May, a poll found that 55% of Israelis believe
2:09.1	Netanyahu's main goal is staying in power, not returning the hostages, not even winning the war.
2:15.6	At the end of May, Ehud al-Mert,
2:17.7	the Prime Minister of Israel from 2006 to 2009,
2:21.3	published a searing opet in Harat's.
2:24.3	Enough is enough read the headline.
	...

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