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That's kind of conversation to your soul.

That's conversation between your soul and the night. Hello, Hello, prestige heads, welcome to now.

And we're very nice. And we're very excited to welcome back to the podcast today. Returning champion Alex Vina. Alex is an associate professor in the School of Historical, Philosophical, and religious studies at Arizona State University. And he writes about a lot of different subjects, trained in Latin American history, but has expanded to write a lot about

the United States and U.S. Latin American relations in general. So, Alex, thanks again for joining

us.

So, guys. Thank you for having me back.

So before we get into it, I just want to give maybe a little bit of context for the show.

So, you know, we've been doing this show for a while a little over four years, and we're

trying to expand the format a bit to not always do interview episodes with people who have written a book or written an article, but to maybe do episodes that are more loose but are organized around the particular topic, whatever that may be.

And so we decided to start with Alex because he's good on Mike. He's a longtime friend.

And we wanted to really talk to him about ICE, immigration and customs enforcement.

And what's been going on, obviously a lot has been going on there.

And Alex has obviously written about this topic.

So just to give you a sense of what the show is going to be.

So why don't we just dive right in, headfirst, into the pool without water?

And Alex, how would you define what has happened with ICE under the Trump administration?

And feel free to contextualize that however you would like. But to my non-expert's mind, there's

been a clear intensification and norm breaking with ICE.

And there's a lot to talk about there.

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