All right. I'm with James Lindsay, everyone. Welcome back to Walkins. Welcome. It's been a while. It's been a while.

It has been. When was the last time you were on the podcast? Do you remember? Oh, my God. Probably like this time of year, 2019, maybe. Oh, holy shit. You and I saw each other last in person in Aspen, right? Yeah. That was like, what,

2019? That was also 2019. When, when was that July? It was the summer, right? Yeah, it was summer.

Yeah. That was summer. Um, that was fun. That was a pretty good trip. That was a, but now

it's like, seems like these the like the days of

like the golden days of yore the idyllic passed when the world hadn't gone mad yet COVID hadn't

happened it had gotten mad though it had but what was what we didn't fully well maybe you did

but what we didn't fully comprehend was how much more

mad it was going to go. Because we were, you guys were in the middle, you were there with

Peter Bogosian, Helen Pleckrose, and we were all at Pamela Preskes, and she's freaking

great. And that, and it was, what were you doing doing there you were trying to like give a talk yeah

she put together like a panel for us with um i forgot what the organization was but they're in aspen

and she had us go and we were talking i think about our grievance studies yes a hoax papers that

we had written yes that came out into 18. So the timing lines up,

right? And so we were talking about kind of the crisis in academia. And if I remember right,

I don't know if we did for sure there, but I can't imagine we didn't. We were trying to make

the point that like what's happening in academia is not going to stay in academia, right? It's going to

leak out or it's going to take over society, which is kind of what motivated us to do the project in the first place.

Yeah.

Remember when I asked for on Twitter examples of self-censorship?

It was right before I met you in person.

And people were, I was like, James, this stuff is everywhere.

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