E230: Submission That Liberates: The Obedience Paradox Explained w/Mary Stanford | Lila Rose Show
The Lila Rose Show
Lila Rose
4.8 • 2K Ratings
🗓️ 11 July 2025
⏱️ 97 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
“Obedience” in marriage is a loaded word—what does it really mean? Are women expected to submit like servants? Is Christian marriage inherently unequal? Or is there something deeper, more beautiful, and profoundly mutual at play?
Today I’m joined by Mary Stanford, who has spent her career unpacking this very paradox. How can a woman “submit” as described in Ephesians 5 and still be a full, free, and equal partner in marriage?
Mary dives into the God-given differences between men and women—how our bodies and dispositions reflect distinct, complementary gifts—and how this complementarity can lead to deep unity and even fruitfulness, both literally and spiritually.
This topic isn’t without controversy. The line between holy submission and enabling harmful dynamics is razor thin. Join the conversation in the comments and help us wrestle with one of the most misunderstood teachings in Scripture.
Obedience Paradox book: https://www.amazon.com/Obedience-Paradox-Finding-Freedom-Marriage/dp/1681926954
Mary's faculty website: https://www.christendom.edu/academics/undergraduate-faculty/mary-stanford/
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00:00:00 - Intro
00:06:39 - Few people have parents as model relationships
00:10:40 - Good Ranchers
00:11:52 - Key successes in Mary’s parent’s marriage
00:19:04 - What did fighting and resolution look like?
00:23:11 - EveryLife
00:24:11 - What is the Obedience Paradox?
00:32:26 - Man as an instrument
00:36:22 - We Heart Nutrition
00:37:20 - What does submission mean?
00:51:01 - The temptation for women
00:54:30 - What are women’s fallen traits?
01:08:38 - Do’s/Don’ts of Biblical Submission
01:27:13 - Final thoughts
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | What you teach is revolutionary in the best of ways. |
| 0:02.5 | The key to this book is that there is something irreplaceable when it comes to the husband and wife. |
| 0:07.2 | There is a unique way in which he gives in a way that I can't. |
| 0:10.7 | What is the obedience paradox? |
| 0:12.4 | The paradox is that we tend to... |
| 0:15.0 | I have heard horror stories, though, of women going to very traditional pastors, and they say, |
| 0:19.6 | tough, do whatever he says. I really don't |
| 0:21.6 | think blind obedience is actually obedience. If we like a guy because he'll do whatever we say and |
| 0:26.9 | let me rule, don't expect him to stand up and engage when you need him to. I think the most attractive |
| 0:32.2 | thing to a guy when he comes to see his wife is..., everyone, welcome back to the Lila Rose show. |
| 0:40.0 | On today's episode, we're going to be talking all things biblical submission. |
| 0:43.6 | What does it mean for wives to submit to their husbands? |
| 0:46.3 | What does this teaching actually mean? |
| 0:47.6 | What does it play out in a Christian marriage? |
| 0:49.8 | We're going to be sitting down with Mary Stanford, who's amazing. |
| 0:52.7 | She's the mother of seven children, as well as a wife of 30 years. |
| 0:56.0 | She's also a professor over at Christendom College, an author, and a speaker. |
| 1:00.1 | And she has written the book called The Obedience Paradox, where she gets into this question |
| 1:05.3 | of what it means for wives to obey their husbands. |
| 1:08.3 | I'm going to kick us off by reading from Ephesians 5 where St. Paul talks about |
| 1:11.6 | the roles in a marriage where a man and a woman come together and become husband and wife. |
| 1:16.0 | Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives be subject to your husbands as to the |
... |
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