Grief is not just one thing. Grief is not just, I'm sad. It can be angry. It can be this very

active, sort of forceful dynamic experience. It's not like a video game where you advance from one

level to another to another. Like, okay, I can check off denial and move forward to anger. It doesn't

really work like that. It's much more parallel process of sadness with anger, with denial, with joy,

and it's much more mixed in and sort of powerful and dynamic than maybe we would have acknowledged

in an earlier time in the psychological conversation. I was trained as a trauma psychologist,

so I've really thought a lot about these edge state loss

experiences. I've worked with a lot of what I would call brokenhearted people all over the years.

But a few years ago, I had, of course, this sort of undesired invitation to do a deep dive

into these experiences myself. All of us are going to lose our parents.

At some point, many of us will lose siblings.

This process of deep grief is universal.

When I lost my grandfather 20 years ago, there was a void.

And I'm curious what you feel that void is for people, and even in your own experience.

Yeah. is for people and even in your own experience. Sherry, welcome to the podcast.

It is so good to be with you, Josh.

Thanks for having me.

You know, whenever I have as many

reschedules and interstitial tension as you and I have had, I always know that something beautiful

wants to come in. And I was sharing with you and I'll share with all of us right now. I was reading

your book, touching two worlds if you're watching with us on YouTube and I absolutely love the cover by

the way the roots that go down and the tree that goes up it reminds me of a phrase from Carl

...