Our Father and God we thank you for your goodness. We commit our words and our conversation to you. We ask that you would bless it for your glory and for our good.

We pray in Jesus' name, amen.

What I'd like to do is alternate, go back and forth between the two of you asking questions

but inviting the other to jump in as the spirit moves you.

I'd like to begin with you, Tim. In your wonderful talk on ordinary living

the gospel out in ordinary means and including unbelievers in that ordinary day-to-day

stuff that we do.

One of the things that people should might worry about is coming up against the fact

that many of the non-Christians who will be most attracted to that are the most dysfunctional in worldly terms and have all sorts of issues

and problems and parents, let's say, of young children

don't want a whole lot of that tracked into the house.

What would you say about that?

Yeah, I think, I mean, we've put some limits.

So I mean, we have two daughters, so one of the kind of rule of thumbs was that we wouldn't

have men staying with us unless we knew them well.

Just because we wanted our children, our daughters particularly to feel safe and secure in the home.

But I think, I mean, I think the in the home.

But I think, I mean, the key thing for me is that I'm a messed up person.

It's not that I'm this sort of all my family is this pristine family and I've got to keep the

horrible polluting sinners you know at arm's length. I'm a messed up person and but I've received I'm a recipient of God's grace and

and that that that has ought to have an impact in terms of you know it again and again, I think both in the mosaic law and in the teaching of Jesus,

the expectation is that our experience of grace will make us gracious people and will radically transform the way we relate to the other,

...