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Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

Don’t Give Up on the Law Just Yet

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

Slate Podcasts

News Commentary, Politics, Government, News

4.63.1K Ratings

🗓️ 2 August 2025

⏱️ 52 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

It’s easy to give up on the courts right now. SCOTUS is throwing down unreasoned decisions expanding Donald Trump’s authority, and Senate Republicans keep confirming the president’s cronies to lifetime judgeships, tarnishing the entire judiciary with their corruption.  But there are judges—courageous, hard-working men and women—who have chosen a different path and are fighting to protect democracy and restore our civil rights. In his new book, Better Judgment: How Three Judges Are Bringing Justice Back to the Courts (out Sept. 2), Reynolds Holding tells the story of three of these judges and how they are laying the groundwork for a post-Trump future in which the courts serve as guardians of liberty rather than instruments of autocracy. Holding speaks with co-host Mark Joseph Stern about these judges’ refusal to accept business as usual and vision of a court that truly delivers equal justice to all.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

When something is so unusual we can't quite wrap our heads around it, we say it's not normal.

0:05.0

Just like how it's not normal to get all the drama, chaos and excitement of football all in one place on TNT Sports.

0:12.0

With the Premier League, UEFA Champions League, Europa League, Conference League, Emirates FA Cup and Adobe Women's FA Cup, all in one place, TNT Sports.

0:20.0

Not normal. Stream TNT Sports on Discovery one place. TNT Sports, not normal.

0:23.0

Stream TNT Sports on Discovery Plus or watch TNT Sports channels on E,

0:25.6

Sky and Virgin Media.

0:27.2

Subscription required, 18 plus, and the Supreme Court.

0:52.5

Courts still have a very important role to play, and we need not to forget them.

0:57.5

A question I've been asking myself a lot these days is whether the law still matters.

1:02.6

We live under a president who thinks he's a king and a Supreme Court that often lets him rule

1:07.6

like one. It's easy to start wondering why we should care about the law at all

1:12.4

when those who swore to uphold it seem more intent on breaking it. A lot of this despair

1:18.4

centers on the courts, where law should be the coin of the realm, but raw partisan power has

1:24.2

become the true currency. I've spent much of Trump's second term criticizing

1:28.7

judicial rulings, and more and more, the response is, we know, the courts are broken. What are we

1:34.9

going to do about it? I don't have an answer to that question, or frankly, to the broader puzzle of

1:40.6

how we save the rule of law from one president and six justices who appear dead set on

1:46.9

destroying it. But I do know that I'm not the only one asking these questions. I've spoken to

1:52.6

multiple judges who've expressed deep sorrow over the state of our democracy today. Even if these

1:59.2

judges know the Supreme Court may well smack them down,

2:02.7

there is still courage to be found in the judiciary and judges who are determined to hold the line,

2:08.3

to protect civil rights and equality and other constitutional guarantees that may have fallen out of

...

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