I would actually take a slightly different step and say how do we start building systems so that they don't need security at all. reasons malicious life besides. I'm Ren Levin.

Today we've got an especially interesting B-side interview for you.

Why is it especially interesting?

Because it's not every day that we have a guest who's suggesting a new paradigm for

cyber security.

A paradigm is a set of ideas or thought patterns, a particular way of thinking with which we approach a problem.

Consequently, it also determines the tools we'll use to solve that problem.

A great example would be 19th century physics, in which Newtonian physics was seen as the be all and all explanation to all possible

physical phenomena. A famous statement, usually attributed to William Thompson, better known as Lord Kelvin, is, quote,

there is nothing new to be discovered in physics now.

All that remains is more and more precise measurement. But of course, there were quite a few physical phenomena that Newton's laws could not explain,

and it was only after Albert Einstein came up with his theory of relativity and physics as a whole underwent a paradigm shift that these phenomena could be truly explained.

This does not mean, of course course that every new paradigm is necessarily correct.

Far from it even. But at the very least, new paradigms, even when they turn out to be wrong, challenge our existing

self-beliefs and assumptions and force us to re-evaluate our thought patterns.

Our guest today is Sunil Yu, C-Seso and head of research at Jupiter 1 and previously chief security scientist

at Bank of America.

Sunil spoke with Nate Nelson about a new framework for designing

secure systems, a framework he calls DIE, acronym for Distributed, immutable, and ephemeral.

Sunil asks us to treat our precious data less like pets and more like cattle.

Sounds confusing? New paradigms always are. Enjoy the interview. So Cybersecurity is in a kind of state right now, right? Solarwinds, colonial pipeline,

Log 4J, yada, yada. Major attacks that seem like they maybe once occurred every decade or every year are coming

...