Did Apple’s Rise Fuel China’s Fight for Tech Supremacy? With Patrick McGee

Intelligence Squared

Arts, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary

4.2 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 29 July 2025

⏱️ 51 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How did Apple, the world’s most valuable company and creator of the defining product of the 21st century, end up so deeply entangled with China’s authoritarian state? In 1996, Apple was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Fast forward to 2003, and the company made a pivotal move - outsourcing production to China in search of affordable, scalable labor. That decision helped catapult Apple to unprecedented success with the iPod and iPhone. But behind the sleek devices lies a complex and consequential relationship that has reshaped global tech, economics, and power. For this episode, Carl Miller speaks to Patrick McGee, investigative journalist and author of Apple in China. Based on over 200 interviews with former Apple engineers, executives, and supply chain insiders, McGee’s new book uncovers how Apple not only transformed Chinese manufacturing - it helped build it. And now, those same capabilities are being leveraged by Beijing in ways that may threaten the very companies that enabled them. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, I'm Eman.
0:01.1	And I'm Taya.
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1:34.0	Welcome to Intelligence Squared, where great minds meet. I'm producer Mia Serrenti. Apple is the world's
1:41.6	most valuable company and creator of the 21st century's defining product.
	...

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