Zack, Jenn, and Alex break down the debate over the legacy of the 9/11 attacks: Did al-Qaeda get what it wanted? On Elsewhere, we look at Russia’s latest bizarre attempt to deflect blame for the UK spy poisoning by posting a questionable interview with the supposed suspects. Zack makes an epistemology joke, Alex negs Salisbury, and Jenn labels Russians a “tropical people.” References: The Foreign Policy article that kicked off this conversation. During the conversation about torture in the US, Jenn mentioned a Dick Cheney quote and Alex referenced a quote from President Obama. Jenn recommends this article for deeper understanding about al-Qaeda’s goal of bleeding America economically and militarily to convince the country to get out of the Middle East. She also cited this statement of the organization’s goals from 1998. And here’s more on the “Why aren’t we attacking Sweden?” argument. Ayman al-Zawahiri’s Knights Under the Prophet’s Banner recounts his early days in Egypt, and Gilles Kepel’s book Muslim Extremism in Egypt: The Prophet and Pharaoh talks about the history of the jihadi movement in Egypt. And Jenn recommends this article about US counterterrorism assistance to Egypt in the 1990s. More on Jared Kushner’s friendship with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman. Jenn read from two Al Qaeda 9/11 anniversary messages, one from 2017 and one from this week. Zack mentioned research into the Iraq war’s role in the 2008 recession, and the fact that people born after 9/11 are now able to enlist. The RT interview that we discussed in Elsewhere. And an explanation of Johny Johny, for listeners fortunate enough to have so far avoided this corner of the internet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices