This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.

Staff writer Dexter Filkins has covered the war in Afghanistan for a very long time,

first when he was a reporter for the New York Times and then more recently for the

New Yorker. His 2008 bestseller carried the resonant title, The Forever War. And now with the

American withdrawal and the return to power of the Taliban, the forever war seems to be coming

to a chaotic and ominous end. I spoke with Dexter Filkins last week. Now, Dexter, we are watching

the Taliban retake complete control of Afghanistan after 20 years of American presence and

occupation. As someone who started reporting on this country late in the 1990s and you were

there even before I know, how did this happen?

Wow. I mean, I have to say I never quite imagined it that the day would actually come. I always

thought they'd kick the can down the road, you know, another decade. I think fundamentally,

from the very beginning, there were two contradictions, fatal contradictions in the American project. And I think one was,

we made friends, our chief friends were the warlords, and they set up the government. It was

kind of a government sanctified by

elections, but basically it became a criminal state that preyed on the Afghans and stole the American

money and came to be really the greatest driver of Taliban recruitment. I think the other

fatal contradiction is Pakistan. It was supposed to be our friend and ally.

That's the country through which we sent the bulk of our supplies. We paid dearly for that privilege.

But at the same time, Pakistan harbored the leadership. They knew where they were at all times.

They allowed training camps.

They allowed the Taliban to plan attacks.

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