5 • 911 Ratings
🗓️ 6 June 2025
⏱️ 40 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
“We don't actually know how many animals we're testing on in this country, because most of them are not protected by any laws. There's not even a requirement that you track their numbers.” – Delcianna Winders
Today, I have the pleasure of sharing some genuinely promising news. For decades, the FDA and NIH have required or relied on animal testing as the gold standard for drug development and biomedical research. But that's beginning to change.
Both agencies have just announced significant steps to reduce animal testing—moves that could mark a turning point in how science is done. The FDA is beginning to phase out animal testing requirements for certain new drug applications, starting with monoclonal antibody therapies, and is pushing forward the use of more ethical, human-relevant technologies—like organ-on-a-chip systems and advanced computer modeling. At the same time, the NIH is prioritizing human-based approaches and creating a new office dedicated to accelerating the development and adoption of these new methods across biomedical research.
To help us understand what all of this means, what led to these changes, and what still needs to happen, I’m joined by Delci Winders, director of the Animal Law and Policy Institute at Vermont Law and Graduate School. Delci is one of the leading voices at the intersection of law, science, and animal protection—and she’s here to walk us through this historic shift.
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0:00.0 | Species. |
0:07.0 | Species. |
0:09.0 | Unite. |
0:10.0 | Unite. |
0:11.0 | It's really hard to overstate how monumental this is. |
0:17.0 | And again, as with the FDA, they were very explicit in their announcement that they recognized that this is better for everybody. |
0:25.0 | It's a win, win, win, win. |
0:26.7 | It's a win for animals, a win for consumers, a win for public health and safety. |
0:33.4 | It's going to save taxpayer money. |
0:35.3 | It's just really incredible. |
0:45.4 | Yeah. It's going to save taxpayer money. It's just really incredible. Hi, I'm Elizabeth Novagrats. |
0:47.8 | This is Species Unite. |
0:53.1 | Today, I have the pleasure of sharing some really good news with you. Both the FDA and the NIH have announced that they're going to reduce and phase out certain animal testing. |
1:06.8 | Delciana Winders is the director of the Animal Law and Policy Institute at Vermont Law and Graduate School, |
1:12.8 | and she is here with me to talk about what this means and what work still remains to be done. |
1:39.1 | Thank you. Hi, Delsey. It is so good to see you again after many years. |
1:41.0 | It's awesome to see you. |
1:44.0 | It's been a long time since you were on the podcast. You were like one of the |
1:44.9 | early guests on this podcast. And we met in person at Lewis and Clark. I know. It was |
1:50.5 | odd. And I had just gotten there, I think. Right. And we had just started this, I think, |
1:56.0 | or not, it hadn't been around very long. And look at us now. Look at us now, Delsey. And a lot has happened. |
2:02.6 | So before we get into everything we're going to talk about today, why don't you just say |
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