Delay, Deny, Derail: Inside the fossil fuel lobby’s playbook at COPs

Outrage + Optimism

Persephonica

Science, Finance, Energy, Policy, Business, Green, Society, Current Affairs, Climate, News, Planet, Society & Culture, Environment, Climatechange, Nature, Parisclimateagreement, Globalwarming

4.7 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 3 April 2025

⏱️ 48 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How have fossil fuel lobbyists become so embedded in the COP system, and how can we disrupt their involvement in domestic and international politics? This is our second episode inspired by the RSC and Good Chance Theatre’s production of Kyoto.

In this episode, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson explore the history of this often unseen influence, ask why fossil fuel lobbyists have become so embedded in the COP system, and consider what levers are emerging to disrupt their involvement in domestic and international politics.

This episode also features another panel from our live event at The Conduit, inspired by the RSC and Good Chance Theatre’s Olivier-nominated production of Kyoto, and hosted by the Financial Times’ Pilita Clark. She’s joined by climate lawyer Tessa Khan, climate finance and energy expert Kirsty Hamilton, and historian of climate change negotiations and former UNFCCC secretariat Joanna Depledge, to unpack how industry lobbyists - from oil majors to car manufacturers - used misinformation, procedural manipulation, and political influence to undermine progress in Kyoto and beyond.

So, how have fossil fuel lobby tactics changed in the years since Kyoto? Have they achieved everything they set out to? And what might the world look like if the industry had never sought to delay and derail climate negotiations - or, better yet, had taken responsibility for its role in the green transition?

This is our second episode inspired by the RSC and Good Chance Theatre’s production of Kyoto. You can listen to the first episode, Behind the Scenes at Kyoto: Drama and diplomacy on the world stage here.

Learn more:

📚Read: This Guardian article about the Greenpeace loss in North Dakota

📺Watch: Climate of Concern, a 1991 film by Shell

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford and Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello and welcome to outrage and optimism. I'm Tom Rivikana. I'm Christiana Figueres.
0:06.9	And I'm Paul Dickinson. This week we bring you the second part of our conversation about the play
0:11.4	Kyoto focusing specifically on the influence of fossil fuel companies on the climate negotiations.
0:17.8	Thanks for being.
0:21.4	So friends, we're back again with the second part of our discussion about the play Kyoto
0:25.5	that we are still reveling from, having enjoyed that, I suppose, 10 days ago now.
0:30.8	But I think I'd like to start by just saying, Paul, finally, the podcast has come around
0:36.4	to the topic that you spend every week talking about
0:38.5	anyway. So how do you feel? This must be a big moment for you. You know, a stopped clock
0:42.1	is right twice a year and I'm having that little moment. It's going to be the right time
0:46.1	of day for me and watch me like a comet pass through and then you can carry on the same theme
0:51.2	when we're trying to be talking about other things. not at all. Wait, what does that mean?
0:54.3	What is Paul's pet topic?
0:56.4	I mean, maybe it's just me that thinks this, but my sense is that every week, Paul, not wrongly,
1:00.7	I'm not criticizing him for this, actually, brings it back to the fact that one of our major
1:04.4	barriers is the fact that corporations are not pushing governments to do the right thing.
1:08.6	They're pushing them to do the right thing. They're pushing them to do the wrong thing. And whatever the question is, Paul rightly points out that that's one of the answers.
1:15.0	But today we're talking about that directly.
1:16.5	And the Royal Shakespeare Company has come forward not just to agree with me, but to set it out
1:20.4	and to be nominated for an Olivier Award for this brilliant play.
1:24.4	No, no, two, two, Olivia Awards.
1:26.1	The play itself is nominated for an Olivia Award.
	...

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