Defending Shame with Te-Li Lau

Life and Books and Everything

Clearly Reformed

Books, Religion & Spirituality, Arts, Christianity

4.6 • 635 Ratings

🗓️ 9 March 2022

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

We think of shame as destructive, manipulative, and toxic. And it can be all those things. But shame can also be a powerful and healthy part of our moral formation. In this fascinating conversation, Kevin talks to Te-Li Lau, a professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, about his recent book Defending Shame: It’s Formative Power in Paul’s Letters. Together, Kevin and Te-Li explore the pervasiveness of our therapeutic assumptions, the central theme of shame throughout the Bible, and good and bad ways to think about shame in our own lives.

Timestamps:

Introduction and Sponsor [0:00-1:28]Guest Intro: Te Li Lau [1:29-8:44]Positive Shame? [8:45-11:43]Defining Shame [11:44-17:28]East vs. West [17:29-25:36]Shame vs. Guilt [25:37-35:26]Is God a Bully to Use Shame? [35:27-40:48]The Solution for Shame [40:49-47:50]Paul's Use of Shame [47:51-55:43]Reintegrative Shame Theory [55:44-1:00:22]Modern Objections to Shame [1:00:23-1:05:39]

Transcript

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0:00.0	Greetings and salutations.
0:12.0	Welcome back to Life and Books and Everything.
0:16.0	I'm Kevin DeYoung and glad to have you with us.
0:19.0	If you're, we now have YouTube, you can watch and you can also listen on the podcast.
0:26.9	So if you're watching this, then I'm going to introduce our special guest in just a moment.
0:32.3	And if you're listening, you'll get to that, but you can't see him yet.
0:36.1	Before we get to our conversation, I want to again
0:39.1	thank our sponsor, Crossway. As always, they produce so many good books and are gracious to
0:45.3	sponsor this podcast. Just want to mention today, the new book by Eric Ortland, Suffering Wisely
0:51.2	and Well, the Grief of Job and the grace of God.
0:56.1	As any Christian or pastor or ministry leader can tell you, there are always a need for good
1:02.2	books on suffering because all of our people, one way or another, are going to go through
1:06.8	suffering.
1:07.8	Why does God allow suffering?
1:09.5	How do we minister through suffering? And this book
1:12.5	in particular, Eric, focuses on the book of Job, which is very well known as a book about suffering
1:18.6	in the Bible, but sometimes misunderstood. So this will direct us to deepen our relationship as we
1:24.5	walk through suffering. So check that out. I am joined today by
1:30.4	Talil Lau, who is a professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, north of Chicago.
1:41.0	He tells me that it's snowing out his window this morning. So I wish we could,
1:46.8	you could enjoy some of this warm North Carolina air that I have here, but they haven't figured
1:52.9	out how to get that across the internet yet. And Dr. Lau has a degrees from Stanford, Trinity,
	...

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