David Remnick Talks Spy Novels with a Former Spy

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

The New Yorker

President, Barack, News, Politics, Wnyc, Obama, Lizza, Washington, Wickenden

4.3 • 3.9K Ratings

🗓️ 21 August 2017

⏱️ 17 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Jason Matthews spent over thirty years in the C.I.A., working in the former Soviet bloc and other hot spots, and when he retired he turned to the next best thing: writing spy novels. While they’re contemporary —Vladimir Putin appears as a character—they have more in common with John Le Carré’s tales than with the action thrillers of the post-9/11 era. In many of today’s stories, Matthews says, “a former F.B.I. guy is being chased by crazed colleagues, and with the help of a bipolar girlfriend does something amazing. I wanted to tell a more basic story about the classic Cold War struggle of East and West.” The forthcoming third volume in his trilogy is called “The Kremlin’s Candidate,” presumably with a nod toward current events. Whatever we may eventually learn about Donald Trump’s campaign and Russian intelligence, Matthews thinks that we ought not to be surprised: in matters of infiltration and compromise, he says, the Russians are always way ahead of us.

Note: In his interview with David Remnick, Jason Matthews misspoke in defining the acronym MICE used by the CIA. It is usually rendered as Money, Ideology, Compromise (or Coercion), and Ego.

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1:11.9	I'm Dorothy Wickenden on. On today's politics and more podcast, David Remnick talks to Jason
1:17.7	Matthews, a writer and former CIA operative whose novels draw in his experience as a Cold War
1:23.9	spy. He warns not to underestimate the Russian intelligence apparatus.
1:31.0	Now, I've always loved a good spy thriller, whether it's a heady John LeCarray chess game,
1:36.4	or Jason Bourne defying death every 90 seconds. But right now, it's the old-school spy novels
1:43.3	that feel surprisingly and especially current.
1:46.6	Because everything we've learned about Russia and the election of Donald Trump feels in some way like a Cold War spy novel, and not a very believable one at that.
1:57.3	I find Jason Matthews' fiction a little bit more believable than real life.
2:02.6	Matthews was a CIA operative for over 30 years, recruiting spies and informants in the former Soviet bloc in other places.
2:10.1	After retiring from the agency, he started writing.
	...

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