Welcome back to 10 blocks. I'm Jordan McGillis,

economics editor of City Journal.

And I'm Alison Schrager. I'm a senior fellow at Manhattan Institute, a contributing editor at City Journal, and a columnist at Bloomberg opinion.

Alison, I don't think of myself as much of a partisan, but I must admit I took distinct pleasure in some recent center-left on left economic criticism.

It came in the form of a recent essay in the journal

Foreign Affairs by Jason Furman, who chaired President Obama's Council of Economic Advisors,

and it was directed at the now-electorally defeated Biden administration's embrace of what

Furman calls the post-neo-liberal delusion. You and I both flagged this piece as something worth talking about,

and we noted that it covered some of the same themes as your work. What particularly struck you here?

I would say it took a lot of pleasure in this, not because I like to see inter-party warfare.

I've been following Jason's work for years as like most economists, and noticed he was critical

the administration throughout. I was surprised to see this.

But one thing I did enjoy about it, I mean, I don't enjoy any policy failing.

I would have liked Biden's policies to have worked,

even if I wasn't sympathetic to the administration,

was that Jason was really calling out economic orthodoxy

and how we need to return to those values.

And that's true for both parties.

I mean, there was a time where we both were kind of in the center and even Democrats were enthusiastic for markets and understood the tradeoffs that markets pose.

His brave thing for him to do was doing it to sort of bring Democrats back to more sensible economic policies, that still might not be

always things I agree with because they put a higher weight on having the government have a bigger

presence than I personally would like. But the policies used to be at least somewhere in the

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