This is John Batchelor, a conversation with Annette Toulleven, my colleague at the Quince Institute for Responsible

Statecraft. He's just returned from Moscow, and he was immediately taken with how you can't tell about sanctions.

Here's Anatole describing the wartime Moscow under severe sanctions, and yet more of this later thank you yes that well I mean in

Moscow and to be honest it's very difficult to detect any very negative impacts of sanctions.

I mean you see many more Chinese cars on the road than you did previously.

And there's far less Western food in the food stores,

but of course Russia produces lots and lots and lots of its own food.

I mean it's completely impossible to starve Russia.

There seems to be, you know, a great deal of money still floating around in Moscow.

Clearly, you know, a lot of Russians have brought their money. of money

back from the West for fear of it being confiscated

of they being placed under sanctions.

And people I talk to, you know, from the Russian provinces

said that, you know, in a good many places,

the economy is actually doing much better than it has for, oh, you know, 35 years now because there's massive

reinvestment, of course in military industries but you know also in wider things you know like

like trucks for the for the military