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This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross.

President Trump's immigration policies, his tariffs, enabling doge to fire or lay off tens of thousands of federal workers, are all creating an environment of financial uncertainty.

It's rattling consumers, as well as many businesses, investors, and global leaders,

and yet the stock market has remained high. Why? To explain the impact of these policies and

proposals, with an extra portion of uncertainty caused by the government shutdown, we invited

the editor-in-chief of the economist Zanny Minton Betoes to join us. She is also the host of The Insider,

The Economist's New Streaming Show. She previously was the publication's business editor and

economics editor and as a former economist for the International Monetary Fund.

We recorded our interview yesterday. Sandy Mittenbettos, welcome back to fresh air. Of all the

financial moves, Trump and his administration have been making, is there any one thing that you find

most confounding or most impactful? Well, first of all, it's very nice to

join you again. That's a hard one to answer because what is remarkable is that in the face of a

lot of shocks, some positive, many negative, the economy is doing remarkably well. And the stock

market is doing remarkably well. And I think that the sort of

simple way to explain that is that on the one hand, we have a number of policy shocks. And I would

put the president's immigration policy right at the top and his tariff policy right at the top.

And we can talk about both of those. But also generally the

uncertainty that surrounds what President Trump does. You know, he is very pro-business on one

...