Hello, you are listening to the Made of Human Podcast. I'm Sophie Hagen. I have to do this very quickly and very quietly because my housemates are probably asleep.

It's almost a half past midnight and I really want to put this episode out as soon as possible.

I came straight from the interview with Susan Kalman. It took us I think about two hours. I haven't checked yet and it was incredible and I want you to listen to this as soon as I can.

Because it was two hours I'm going to split it up into two parts.

So the first part which you're going to hear now is not it's not that bad.

Like it's it's um it's not too heavy. It's it's I don't remember when we started talking about some darker more serious stuff, but I'll try and give you like the first hour of our conversation, then I'm pretty sure next week when you get

part two that's going to be a bit more you know so we basically talked about and

there's like a trigger warning here. This might be a bit triggering to some people.

I don't think we'll really touch it on it in the first bit, but in the second bit there will be talk about suicide attempt

depression and self-harm but you know I mean we I think we both at times cried and it's it's quite weird because it took me a long time to realize she was crying it

literally I'm I must be like a robot because in my head I was going

oh water is coming from her eyes I wonder why and because she was just smiling and talking and

anyways she's probably the most incredible human being in the world and yeah we get quite deep

but it starts out not dark so I think the first episode is going to be the first part of the two

part of the two parts of Susan Kalman special. I don't think that was too dark as far as I

remember but and I need to record this now before my housemates fall too deeply

asleep and I might wake them up so I can't really listen to it and then record this.

That's all admin- based. But I just I just want this to be

released as quickly as possible because I feel like everyone has has to

everyone should hear what Susan has to say.

Because she's, I mean, and if you, I've had depression and actually after I've spoken to Susan,

I think I realize that I say I say I have had a depression where I don't think it'll ever leave I think I have a depression and I haven't said that out loud since you know I stopped seeing a therapist and I have a depression and it's always going to be there in some capacity in some aspect or in you know it'll take different shapes

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