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And thanks for listening. Welcome to the HBR Idea Cast from Harvard Business Review. I'm Amy Bernstein and

I'm here today with Clayton Christensen, professor of Business Administration

at Harvard Business School and co-author of Consultants on the Cusp of Disruption,

a feature in the October issue of HBR.

Joining us on the phone is Dominic Barton Global Managing Director of McKinsey and Company. the You've documented the phenomenon of disruption for years across numerous industries

probably most famously in the steel business. What are you seeing in the world of

general management consulting? Well I will say that I see disruption occurring there, but everybody needs to know that we're not pointing the finger at everyone else.

The process of disruption is occurring against the Harvard Business School

itself.

So this is not just a targeted shot at anyone. But you do see it happen and disruption always occurs in ways that it

emerges in parts of the market where you wouldn't even think to ask.

And in this case, what disrupts any business is somebody takes a piece of business that is not attractive to the

leaders and because it's not attractive in the pursuit of profit they go to bigger and bigger and nicer and

nicer pieces of business and then the disruptor starts at the bottom and moves up

and what's attractive in the starts at the bottom and moves up.

And what's attractive in the consulting business

is big clients who have big problems.

And the more they can have more of those kinds of clients the more profitable

...