Lauren the Vern here, we're taking our usual summer break so until we're back on air,

we're showcasing a few programs from our back catalogue, as usual the music's been shortened

for right reasons. This week's guest is the American lawyer Brian Stevenson, he was cast

away in 2015 by Kirsty Young.

My cast away this week is the lawyer Brian Stevenson, his life's work is caring about difficult

things. Founder and director of the Equal Justice Initiative based in Alabama, he specialises

in appealing death penalty cases, the rights of children in the penal system,

and all the complex issues surrounding race, poverty and the law. He's pretty busy.

Growing up in a happy close-knit home, money was tight into his first few years of education

were at a segregated school. Later, he went on to Harvard and recently Barack Obama

appointed him to a task force on 21st century policing. America's racial history runs right

through his life and work. His great-grandparents were slaves. He was very close to his grandmother,

a tough, strong woman, who'd been through a lot. His grandfather's violent murder left the family

heartbroken. His work in prisons and on death row has, he says, taught me some basic and humbling

truths, including this vital lesson. Each of us is more than the worst thing that we have ever

done. So welcome, Brian Stevenson. Firstly, how challenging is it for you, I wonder, to apply yourself

to these cases that are very distressing and to work on behalf of people who have done terrible

things? Well, it's difficult work. There's no question about it, but it's also deeply engaging.

These are people who are condemned. These are people who have been judged to have no moral redeeming

features beyond hope. And I've never met anybody about whom I could say this person is beyond hope.

I've represented people who have done some really difficult and dangerous things, including some

who may have to be institutionalized for a very long period of time, but I've never met anybody

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