The

The Welcome back to Nomad podcast.

Nick's back.

Hi Tim, perfect intonation.

I like that intonation.

It's very familiar rhythm to the opening.

It's always a pleasure to welcome you back to the garden office.

It's quite warm in here today, isn't it?

It's nice and warm.

I've been freezing for about a week, so I'm liking it.

We've got a very interesting interview for you this time, beloved listener, an Anglican priest

who's also a Zen Buddhist teacher. How can you not find that interesting? That's interesting,

isn't it? It's really interesting. Zen is in the common vernacular as well, isn't it?

It is, yeah. Like, oh, I'm just going to go all Zen. Yeah. So for those of us who are

wrestling with what might feel like, I don't know, a rather narrow faith that we've inherited in this

episode, we're going to be exploring how another religion might help us on that journey. Controversial?

I don't know. Nick, how would you have felt 10 years ago when Nomad started if I had suggested that we spoke with a Christian

who was also a Zen teacher? I'd say no, Tim, don't do that. Why would we want to do that?

Because I can remember, I can remember right back in the early days when Steve Chalk came out

with that book, what was it, the lost message of Jesus? And he was kind of critique in penal

substitution, wasn't he? I think he famously likened it to cosmic child abuse. That sort of

understanding of the cross. And you said, oh, we should interview Steve Chalk. And I was like,

...