China spy scandal: 'a masterclass of ineptitude'?

Coffee House Shots

The Spectator

News, Politics, Government, Daily News

4.4 • 2.1K Ratings

🗓️ 14 October 2025

⏱️ 14 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Tim Shipman and Charles Parton, China adviser at the Council on Geostrategy, join James Heale to discuss the ongoing fallout over the collapse of the Westminster spy case. Security minister Dan Jarvis answered an urgent question on the matter late on Monday in Parliament, stringently denying that the government played an active role in collapsing the case. But, as Charles and Tim stress, the case still doesn't add up. Is it as simple as the government not wanting to offend China? And is the deputy national security adviser being 'hung out to dry'?

Produced by Patrick Gibbons.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Sophie Tom and the kids are standing by the luggage carousel, waiting for Sophie's bag.
0:03.9	Looks like she's going to be wearing Tom's clothes for a week, but she's not worried.
0:07.5	Their HSBC Premier bank account has comprehensive worldwide travel insurance that covers them, the kids and grandkids, if they had them.
0:14.8	Everything's Premier when your bank account is.
0:16.9	Search HSBC Premier, HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity.
0:22.1	Apply with £100,000 annual income or £100,000 savings or investments with HSBC UK or Premier Status Broad,
0:27.0	covered by Aviva Insurance Limited.
0:28.7	Age restrictions and limitations apply.
0:36.4	Hello, welcome to Coffee House Shots. I'm James Hill and I'm joined today by The Spectators'
0:40.1	Political Editor Tim Shipman and Charles Parton, China Advisor at the Council on Geo Strategy.
0:45.4	Now, Charles, you were due to be a key witness in the trial of Chris Cash and Christopher Berry.
0:51.2	You've given some comments to The Financial Times, among others. You've written for
0:54.4	LBC. What do you think the collapse of this trial says about the UK stance towards China?
0:59.5	Well, it's hard to get away from the fact that this looks like another example of not wanting to
1:04.9	offend China. To me, it's a masterclass of ineptitude and possibly appeasement.
1:10.1	And you've also written about how the strategy towards China has been quite flawed.
1:14.4	I mean, you write your LBC article talking about how, for instance, that trade with China
1:18.7	jumped after we had the Dalai Lama boycott.
1:21.5	And ironically, prior to COVID, the only time it sort of declined was during the so-called
1:24.7	golden era.
1:25.8	How much do you think that the kind of current government's woes towards China are both, you know, either party mismanagement to kind of incoming new government or if it's longstanding strategic assumptions of the Treasury getting it wrong? Well, I think, first of all, I think that the Treasury runs China policy. The Treasury has very little experience of China, incidentally, but it has always been, as it was under George Osborne, and it seems to be continuing so at the moment.
1:49.1	I think its knowledge of China is deficient in the sense that, I mean, ministers always go on about trade.
	...

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