China's Quest to Engineer the Future | Dan Wang

Hidden Forces

Demetri Kofinas

Government, Business

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 13 October 2025

⏱️ 50 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In Episode 444 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Dan Wang, author of Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future, about his pioneering new framework that compares the U.S. and China not along ideological lines or modes of governance, but by state capacity and the propensity to build.

According to Dan Wang, China is an "engineering state," focused on building big projects and diffusing technologies across its economy, while America is a "lawyerly society" that has become proficient at protecting what it has and obstructing progress in areas that are vital for its long-term prosperity. Kofinas and Wang compare each nation's leadership—staffed by engineers and mega-project managers in China and litigators and regulators in America—against each other and against each country's own history, and examine when and why the United States, in particular, went from being a country that excelled in constructing things to one more concerned with obstruction and safeguarding a comfortable way of life for the wealthiest and older segments of society.

The second hour is devoted to a discussion about the failures and unintended consequences of China's engineering state, most notably the devastating human impact of its one-child and zero-COVID policies. They also explore the similarities between the American and Chinese people, the prospects for conflict between the two superpowers, and what policies the United States can implement to get back to building again—like reforming immigration, advancing clean energy development, permitting the buildout of more housing, and increasing funding for basic scientific research and development.

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Episode Recorded on 10/06/2025

Transcript

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0:00.0	What's up, everybody? My name is Demetri Gaffinas, and you're listening to Hidden Forces,
0:06.1	a podcast that inspires investors, entrepreneurs, and everyday citizens, the challenge consensus
0:12.9	narratives, and learn how to think critically about the systems of power shaping our world.
0:18.8	My guest in this episode of Hidden Forces is Dan Wong, author of the fantastic
0:23.5	new book, Breakneck, China's quest to engineer the future. Dan is a writer and analyst whose work
0:30.6	focuses on technology, industrial policy, and U.S. China relations. He spent six years in China
0:36.6	from 2017 to 23 and is a research fellow
0:40.3	at Stanford University's Hoover History Lab. We spent the first hour of our conversation today
0:45.9	unpacking the central pioneering new framework that Dan puts forward in his book, one that compares
0:51.6	the U.S. and China not along ideological lines or modes of governance,
0:56.4	but by state capacity and the propensity to build. China, according to Dan, is an engineering
1:02.6	state, focused on building big projects and diffusing technologies across its economy,
1:08.5	while America is a lawyerly society that has become proficient at protecting
1:12.7	what it has and obstructing progress in areas that are vital for its long-term prosperity.
1:18.4	We compare each nation's leadership, staffed by engineers and megaproject managers in China,
1:23.5	and litigators and regulators in America, against each other, and against each country's
1:28.3	own history, and examine when and why the United States in particular went from being a country
1:33.8	that excelled in constructing things, for bridges, railway systems, and airports, to one concerned
1:40.6	more with obstruction and safeguarding a comfortable way of life for the wealthiest
1:45.6	and older segments of society.
1:48.1	The second hour is devoted to a discussion about the failures and unintended consequences
1:53.1	of China's engineering state, most notably the devastating human impact of its one-child
	...

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