Chatter: German Grand Strategy and ... Kraftwerk, with Ben Tallis
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 10 December 2024
⏱️ 89 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
International politics and security expert Dr. Ben Tallis, who now directs the Berlin-based Democratic Strategy Initiative, joined David Priess to discuss the challenges of German grand strategy since 1945, the country's musical culture in the 1950s and 1960s, the origins and evolution of Kraftwerk and its members' effort to reconceptualize German identity, the band's influence on musicians globally, U2 and post-Cold War Europe, how Germany became the most respected country in the world by 2020, Chancellor Angela Merkel's missed opportunities to reconceptualize Germany's international role, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Chancellor Olaf Scholz's Zeitenwende speech, German rearmament since 2022 compared to Poland, the role of chancellor in the German system, the roster of future German leaders, and whether countries in Central and Eastern Europe would have enough confidence in German resolve to follow more assertive leadership from Berlin.
Mentioned in this episode:
Official website of the band Kraftwerk
The Democratic Strategy Initiative, at www.democratic-strategy.net
The journal article by Benjamin Tallis, "Kraftwerk and the International 'Re-Birth of Germany:' Multiplicity, Identity, and Difference in Music and International Relations," in Cooperation and Conflict, Vol. 57:3 (2022)
The online article by Roderick Parkes, Florence Schimmel, and Benjamin Tallis, "Germany Needs a Strategy--Grand and Democratic," in Internationale Politik Quarterly, January 16, 2024
Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.
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| 1:05.0 | Welcome to Chatter. I'm David Preece. This week, international politics and security expert Ben Talis on German Grand Strategy and Kroftwerk. |
| 1:20.3 | But on the musical front, there's then this double resentment, if you like. One is against the homegrown pop music, which is just god-awful, |
| 1:27.8 | and no one who wants to rebel in their right mind would listen to this stuff. The other is against |
| 1:32.5 | the music of the occupiers. But where was their own voice? And there's a couple of interviews |
| 1:37.8 | with the guys from Kraftwerk talking directly about this, saying it's one thing to love the Beatles, |
| 1:42.6 | and we do. But it's another thing to make |
| 1:44.5 | something of your own so they wanted to actually make something that could again be German |
| 1:48.5 | so again how do I say this in a German way was the big question that that speech was written |
| 1:55.5 | and given in a moment of panic in Berlin it was a time when it looked like Kiev was going to fall and that an emboldened |
| 2:03.1 | Russia would be knocking at the door. And so it's time to get serious. The Ukrainians fight back |
| 2:08.7 | and by time and the air goes out of this process of change almost completely. |
| 2:19.3 | Hi Ben. Good to see you again. |
| 2:22.3 | Hey, David. Nice to see you too. |
... |
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