Chatter: A Spy in the Manhattan Project with Steve James
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 7 September 2023
⏱️ 72 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
When he was 18 years old, Ted Hall, then a Harvard undergraduate, was recruited to join the Manhattan Project, becoming the youngest physicist on the U.S. team racing to build an atomic bomb before the Nazis. When it became clear that Germany would lose the war, Hall feared that the Americans might maintain a monopoly over nuclear weapons, an imbalance he thought could lead to global tyranny. So he decided to share secret designs with the Soviet Union, which was then an ally of the United States on its own path to build a bomb.
That fateful action, and the life-long consequences for Hall and his wife, Joan, are the subject of filmmaker Steve James’ new documentary, “A Compassionate Spy.” Using original interviews with members of Hall’s family, and archival footage of the now deceased physicist, James explores Hall’s motivations for sharing nuclear secrets and the FBI’s attempts to charge him with that crime. It’s a complex story about espionage, idealism, and ultimately the love between Ted and Joan that helped to keep the truth hidden for decades.
Shane Harris spoke with James about the film and his career as a documentary filmmaker. James directed several acclaimed films, including “Hoop Dreams,” “Life Itself,” and “Abacus: Small Enough to Jail.”
“A Compassionate Spy” trailer: https://participant.com/film/compassionate-spy
Steve James’ filmography: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0416945/
Also discussed in this interview:
“Mission to Moscow,” the surprising pro-Soviet film from “Casablanca” director Michael Curtiz: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036166/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_39_dr
“Bombshell: The Secret Story of America's Unknown Atomic Spy Conspiracy,” by Joseph Albright and Marcia Kunstel https://www.amazon.com/Bombshell-Secret-Americas-Atomic-Conspiracy/dp/081292861X
The Venona program, which helped to finger Hall as a spy for Moscow
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/Events/1945-present/venona.htm
Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair |
| 0:07.2 | podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair, that's patreon.com slash |
| 0:16.9 | LawFair. Also check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair |
| 0:25.6 | no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:35.7 | This is chatter, I'm Shane Harris. This week, film maker Steve James on a spy in the Manhattan |
| 0:42.2 | project. |
| 0:44.2 | Ted, of course in the film, explains that he had a real serious concern that the United |
| 0:51.7 | States having this weapon all to itself. What might they do with that weapon, especially |
| 0:58.5 | with the Soviet Union? He didn't do this for the Soviet regime, he did this because he |
| 1:05.6 | thought it would save the Soviet people because should the US do some kind of preemptive strike |
| 1:12.0 | on the Soviet Union, the post-war world, millions and millions of lives would have been lost. |
| 1:20.0 | You know, so many espionage stories are about geopolitics and the drama of it all. And |
| 1:26.0 | to me, this was not that story. I mean, this is not the Americans, the TV series. |
| 1:37.0 | Steve James, welcome to chatter. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today. |
| 1:41.0 | Great to be here. |
| 1:43.0 | Well, we're here to talk about your new film, a compassionate spy, which arrives at a |
| 1:48.5 | very opportune moment, given the anniversary of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, |
| 1:55.0 | because your story centers on the Manhattan project. And an individual who was one of |
| 2:00.6 | the scientists on that team, who I think probably a lot of listeners may not be familiar with. |
| 2:06.1 | And I confess, I did not know his story either. A man named Ted Hall. Let's start by just |
| 2:11.8 | giving us the kind of the presses sketch. Who was Ted Hall and what did he do that led you to |
| 2:18.8 | make a film about him in his life? |
... |
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