Hi, this is Emily Bazelon. We're here for Slate Plus, and this week we're going to talk

more about the making of this show with producers Alvin Malef and Varyland Williams.

So I got us together for Slate Plus, hello, Slate Plus, to talk about the making of this show.

And in particular how we approach and think about race and class

in making the show, that sounded very academic,

like I was just introducing a class in school.

You mean because you're talking about the criminal justice system and that mostly means black and

brown folks?

Yeah and the whole of like the making of and yeah that phrase seemed kind of academic to me.

But so I think this is like a fraud topic but also crucial one because we're making a podcast

about mostly black and brown people who are mostly not well off and like that's not me.

I'm a upper middle class white person.

I'm really interested in problems of poverty, which are

often experienced in cities by black and brown people, but that doesn't mean that I'm anything

like them. And so it was really important to me to try to find

journalists of color to work on this with. So Vierlan you were the producer on

the show and we started working on it just like a year ago I think.

Yeah and you know I'll go ahead and admit that before coming to Slate you'd have been on like the

Brian Lira show on WNYC once and I was just like,

I need to meet this woman one day.

And I think I started listening to the other podcast you do here at Slate,

the Political Galfest, and I'd always agree with you out of everyone else on the show.

...