NPR. This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Whalen Wong. You've probably heard about all the lawsuits against AI companies by groups of writers, the New York Times, and getting images.

They've all alleged the big AI firms violated their copyright by scraping up their material

to train AI systems. But there's another issue at hand, too. And joining me to talk about that

today is Emma Jacobs. Welcome. Hi. Hi, Emma. And you are a reporter in beautiful Montreal, Canada.

I am. Thank you for having me. And that other copyright issue being raised by generative AI tools like

chat GPT and Dali is who owns the stuff they produce or even more complicated. Waylon, what if you use

chat GPT to partly create something?

And then a human creates the rest. Is it eligible for copyright? And if so, who holds it?

You are breaking my brain, Emma. So today on the show, we look at these issues through the story of one guy who mashed up a photo he created with Van Gogh's

Starry Night.

There's a lot going on right now.

Mounting economic inequality threats to democracy, environmental disaster, the sour

stench of chaos in the air.

I'm Brooke Gladstone, host of WNYC's On the Media.

Want to understand the reasons and the meanings of the narratives that led us here

and maybe how to head them off at the past?

That's on the media's specialty.

Take a listen wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of the broad strokes of copyright law have actually been set by international agreements,

which countries then implement. But international rules haven't been worked out yet when it comes

to AI. That means countries must try and figure things out

on their own, at least for now. I'll confess. I mean, I've got the best job in intellectual property

...