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We the People

Can President Trump Fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook?

We the People

National Constitution Center

History, News Commentary, News

4.61K Ratings

🗓️ 4 September 2025

⏱️ 66 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this episode, Christine Chabot of Marquette University Law School and Michael McConnell of Stanford Law School join to discuss Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook’s termination and the broader legal and constitutional issues it raises, such as the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve and the scope of the president’s removal power.    Resources Trump v. Wilcox (2025) Collins v. Yellin (2021) Seila Law LLC v. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (2020) Humphrey’s Executor v. United States (1935) Christine Chabot, “Is the Federal Reserve Constitutional? An Originalist Argument for Independent Agencies,” Notre Dame Law Review (2020) Michael McConnell, “Opinion: Save the Federal Reserve’s independence by splitting the agency,” Washington Post (September 3, 2025) In our new podcast, Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness Jeffrey Rosen explores the founders’ lives with the historians who know them best. Plus, filmmaker Ken Burns shares his daily practice of self-reflection.  Follow Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness on Apple Podcast and Spotify.     Stay Connected and Learn More  Questions or comments about the show? Email us at [email protected]. Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr.  Explore the America at 250 Civic Toolkit. Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate.  Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen. Join us for an upcoming live program or watch recordings on YouTube.  Support our important work:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Donate

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, friends. I'm Jeffrey Rosen, President and CEO of the National Constitution Center,

0:07.6

and welcome to We the People, a weekly show of constitutional debate.

0:12.1

The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit, chartered by Congress, to increase

0:17.0

awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people. Friends, before we start today's episode, I'm thrilled to share that we've been working on a new podcast series, which is out next week.

0:27.6

It's called Pursuit, the Founders Guide to Happiness.

0:31.6

Here's the trailer.

0:35.6

Walk with me through Philadelphia in the 18th century.

0:39.5

Blacksmiths hammering metal outside their shops.

0:42.6

Men drinking in taverns and trading gossip in the streets.

0:46.5

Ships docking at busy ports.

0:49.2

Cries for liberty that would lead to the American Revolution.

0:53.4

And the voices of Ben Franklin, John Adams,

0:56.6

Thomas Jefferson, and others whose debates, convictions, and compromises helped shape a nation.

1:03.7

But long before Jefferson included the famous phrase about the pursuit of happiness

1:08.3

in the Declaration of Independence, he and the other founders

1:11.8

were struggling to pursue happiness in their own lives. Ben Franklin devises in his notebook

1:17.6

a beautiful means of keeping track of conquering each of his faults, of hewing to each of

1:24.0

these virtues on a weekly basis.

1:33.3

In his early 20s, Franklin had been reading classical Greek and Roman philosophers, like Pythagoras, Plutarch, and Cicero, and scanning popular magazines for advice to print in the Pennsylvania Gazette.

1:41.3

Based on his reading, he concluded that the secret to self-improvement was self-examination.

1:47.8

Our founders were realists. They knew a thing or two about the good parts of human nature and also the worrying and bad parts of human nature.

1:57.7

The pursuit of happiness, they believed, wasn't about feeling good, it was about being good.

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