Hello, welcome to rock and roll politics, the podcast with me, Steve Richards.

Thanks so much for tuning in, as ever.

We've got a lot to cram in in our time together.

If it's okay with you, this is how we're going to spend our time

together. I'm going to reflect a bit about the whole issue of the boats, stop the boats,

what that tells us about Kirstama. The tendency in a pre-election period, when it looks as if

a leader of the opposition is going to win, to come up with an ism, Blairism, Thatcherism,

although incidentally, in certainly her case, and to some extent his case, the ism came much later.

And now you read most days of the week essays analyzing starmerism.

And then over to you for some questions, few notices.

We've got a lot to get in in our time together. By the way, within those

reflections, also the defection issue, too, of Natalie Elphick, the Labour MP for Dover, Natalie Elphick.

What is interesting sometimes in politics and it is depressing in some

respects is that the fundamental policy issue can be to some extent overlooked for the excitement of the political game. And I think on the boats and

Rwanda, this to some extent has happened to Kirstama and Labour. It's worth reiterating that he,

in a way, that is pretty bold, has unequivocally opposed Rwanda.

And in some respects, this is out of character. Think about the other sort of tough policy

areas. Brexit, not mentioned, backing that terrible deal negotiated by Frost and Johnson,

etc., etc. But on this, Kirstama has been absolutely without qualification, an opponent of the Rwanda scheme.

And I think this tells us something good about him and something interesting about him.

So, for example, when they all went down to Dover last Friday, Kyrsama, Yvette Cooper, Natalie Elphick, the Labour MP, heading back to her constituency.

It was interesting to listen to Kirstama's words, not only on Rwanda, but more broadly.

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