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This Jungian Life Podcast

Calcinatio and the Alchemy of Honest Suffering

This Jungian Life Podcast

Joseph Lee, Deborah Stewart, Lisa Marchiano

Jungian, Mental Health, Health & Fitness, Psychology, Dreams, Jung, Relationships, Selfhelp, Society & Culture, Psychoanalysis

4.81.7K Ratings

🗓️ 17 July 2025

⏱️ 89 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DREAM WITH US, and we’ll teach you how to interpret them!


The calcinatio stage in Jung's alchemy is about being put through inner fire—it's when the ego undergoes a kind of burning away of projections, illusions, and inflated ideas about itself. This stage often brings intense suffering, frustration, and confrontation with parts of yourself you'd rather avoid. It's about staying awake in the heat long enough to discover the truths behind your defenses. Sometimes it's like sitting in hell and roasting. This raw, honest suffering is necessary for individuation. It's not punishment—it's Psyche's way of depotentiating false structures so that something new and more truthful can emerge from the ashes.


Follow along with our dream interpretation here.


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Transcript

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0:00.0

Welcome to this Jungian life.

0:04.2

Three good friends and Jungian analysts, Lisa Marchiano, Deborah Stewart, and Joseph Lee,

0:09.7

invite you to join them for an intimate and honest conversation that brings a psychological perspective to important issues of the day.

0:19.4

I'm Lisa Marchiano, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Philadelphia.

0:23.4

I'm Joseph Lee, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

0:28.3

I'm Deborah Stewart, a Jungian analyst, on Cape Cod.

0:57.2

Thank you. Jung was introduced to alchemy in the 1920s, after he was running into symbolic imagery in his patients' dreams like mandolos and transformative images and mystical unions that bore a very strange and uncanny similarity to the illustrations in a Renaissance alchemical text.

1:08.2

And the turning point came when his friend Richard Wilhelm, who is a German

1:12.3

sonologist and translator of the I Ching, gave him a copy of the 16th century Rosarium Philosophorum,

1:22.1

and what he focused on were these woodblock prints that provided a sequence of images of transformation.

1:33.4

And Jung came to realize that the alchemists who believed that they were transforming matter

1:38.7

were actually projecting their own inner psychological processes onto their work,

1:44.7

which was unconsciously mapping an inner transformative process.

1:52.3

So when Jung discovered alchemy, he saw that it was a system that was much older than

1:57.4

modern psychology that mirrored the stages of individuation.

2:03.8

And these stages are often summarized as the Negredo, Albido, Citranatus, and Rubedo,

2:12.1

with various other transformative descriptions in between.

2:16.8

And this illuminated the archetypal nature of the unconscious, and this became central

2:21.6

to his later theories of the self, archetypes, and the integration of opposites.

2:27.3

And this reinforced his connection of psychology with myth, mysticism, and this deep symbolic language of the soul. And since there

2:38.8

are many stages in alchemy, we've decided to do a series of episodes breaking each one down,

2:47.1

explaining it and also providing some very practical examples of it.

...

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