Pastor Craig Rochelle, the pastor of the largest Protestant church in America,

shares how he's willing to do anything short of sin to lead people to become fully devoted

followers of Christ. The importance of mixing emotion with truth to move people. Why Michael

Jackson's man in the mirror was playing in the lobby of his church. How excellence honors God

and brings value. The systems needed to grow one of the largest organizations on the planet.

How he holds people accountable and how he stays in great shape without steroids and so much more.

Some shows don't need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show dies.

Two men, eight kids co-created by two different women, 13 multi-million dollar businesses,

ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Thrive Time Show.

All right, Thrive Nation. Welcome on to the Thrive Time Show on your radio and podcast download.

On today's show, we are interviewing Dr. Z. We are interviewing a guy who I have known a lot

about, heard a lot about because he is now known as the pastor of the largest Protestant church

in the United States with over 30 campuses. It's a big deal. And because we're entrepreneurs,

we love the startup story. Rumor has it. They started the church in a two car garage equipped with

a borrowed overhead projector and two construction lights they bought for the low-low price of 1999

from Lowe's. And today he is a father of six kids. And these guys are known Z as being the

inventors of the Bible app. The Bible app, it's called the U version Bible app that's now been

downloaded over 200 million times. And he's just released his newest book, Hope in the Dark,

Believing God is good when life is not. Pastor Craig, Michelle, how are you, sir?

Hey, Clay, Dr. Z. I'm honored to be on. I'm doing fantastic here. Thank you.

Hey, your newest book, I want to get to that in a minute, but I think there's a lot of people

listening saying, how in the world does somebody start a church in a two car garage with a projector

...