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Data Over Dogma

Bring Me the Head of John the Baptist!

Data Over Dogma

Data Over Dogma Media, LLC

History, Society & Culture

4.81.1K Ratings

🗓️ 5 January 2026

⏱️ 59 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

John the Baptizer was a fascinating character. More attested to historically than Jesus, John was a genuinely big deal! One of the historically attested facts about John was his execution by Herod. Which Herod? You're going to be sorry you asked. But John's death is fascinating- what do the gospels say about it? Do they agree with each other about how/why it happened (what a world that would be!)? And do the gospel accounts line up with other extra-biblical tellings of the story? Then, we're talking pastors. What, exactly, is a pastor? Who gets to be one (only men?)? We're going to dive into the New Testament clergy org-chart, and figure out what the Bible actually says. Pastor, apostle, bishop, deacon... does the Bible tell us what these positions are? Who is supposed to do what? Who qualifies for which position? Who gets to tell who what to do? ---- For early access to an ad-free version of every episode of Data Over Dogma, exclusive content, and the opportunity to support our work, please consider becoming a monthly patron at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DataOverDogma⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠      Follow us on the various social media places: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/DataOverDogmaPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.twitter.com/data_over_dogma⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Have you ordered Dan McClellan's New York Times bestselling book ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Bible Says So⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ yet??? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Okay, so Shepherd in that case doesn't make any sense.

0:04.7

Yeah, I imagine they were like, I can picture a mad shepherd.

0:09.9

He got caught beating his wheat, and so he's like, all right, well, I'm going to beat my sheep instead.

0:20.7

Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

0:22.6

And I'm Dan Beecher.

0:24.0

And this is Data Over Dogma, where we increase public access to the academic study of the

0:29.5

Bible and religion, and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same.

0:34.2

How are things today, Dan?

0:36.1

Things are great. Things are great.

0:38.5

It's here in Salt Lake City, it's midwinter right now, and couldn't be warmer.

0:45.2

Just absurdly, like there's no snow in the ski slopes that hasn't been manufactured by humans.

0:53.6

It's 60 degrees where I am right now.

0:56.0

Yeah, it is absurd.

0:58.5

It is only winter as the,

1:00.0

as the calendar flies.

1:02.7

So there's that.

1:04.7

I don't know.

1:06.9

I'm frankly unclear how I should feel about that

1:09.9

because I don't love snow and cold,

1:12.6

but also it portends things.

1:16.0

Yes, we live in a state where it is critical to certain things.

1:20.4

So, yeah, we need it as much as we may not want it.

...

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