Hi and welcome to this next episode of the Brexit and Beyond podcast brought to you by the UK in a changing Europe.

And this week we have someone who for me is a very special guest, Peter Hall from Harvard University, is the

Foundation Professor of European Studies and has been, I think, since 2001. And I have to sort of let

let you into a quick secret before I start talking to Peter, which is I'm a bit of a fanboy in

the sense that I've sort of lived with Peter's writings on European politics since I was a PhD student and before.

And he's been one of those people whose work I have turned to over and over and over again.

And it is Peter absolutely fabulous that you can join us today.

Oh, it's great to be here on. I mean, you've just made me sound like I'm a Methuselah, maybe 100, 150 years old, but I'm not quite that old.

And I really enjoyed the work, learned a lot from the work of UK and changing Europe.

I want to start with a piece that you've done quite recently on populism and social integration,

partly because it was a fascinating piece, partly because it shimes with so much

of the work that we've been concerned with in thinking about Brexit. So rather than summarize it

for you, do you want to just tell us what the key ideas in that piece are? Yes, there are two articles,

actually, on roughly the same topic, one in the comparative political studies and one in the British Journal of Sociology,

with my colleague, Nome Gidron, who teaches at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

And I think that we were motivated to work on this because at the time we started,

the debate about the causes of populism, in particular rising support for right populism,

had become a debate about whether this was a revolt against globalization with broadly

economic causes, or whether it was a kind of cultural revolt, a cultural counterreaction

to the rise of post-material or cosmopolitan values,

the prominence of those values among the elites. And our sense was that that was a kind of

artificial debate, that there was a way in which a rising support for right populist politicians of many sorts,

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