Derek, before we move, I just have one question to stick on the mid-20th century for a moment.

How does World War II reshape this?

Because even just in your reference to bomber jackets, you know, people have particular aesthetic experiences during the war.

For example, if you're in a bomber plane, you're flying for hours and you have to wear really

thick jackets. You also have to like urinate in your pants and things along those lines.

You're wearing a particular garment for a very long amount of time if you're in, you know,

you're in the Japanese island hopping campaign. If you're in the Battle of the Bulls,

then mine immediately goes to Hell's Angels and initially started, you know,

these biker gang by veterans.

So before we get into the transition to Reagan, which I do want to talk about, I was wondering

if you had any thoughts on World War II in particular, sort of this dividing moment when

it comes to what people wear differently in the post-war period.

I think at that period you have, it depends on which class you're talking about. Many of the veterans that came home from Europe were afforded free education through the GI Bill.

And again, many of those people, essentially through that process of going to college,

got corporate jobs and raised a family,

and they became bourgeois. They became part of the middle class. There were some veterans who

joined biker gangs and were essentially the kind of the rebel class. There were many people

who didn't fight in the Second World War, or they came back and they were not, you know, they did not necessarily become bourgeois, they became the kind of underclass, and they were different kinds of clothes and not the suit.

But I think one of the important moments at that time is that the U.S. government had produced a ton of clothing for those soldiers, bomber jackets, duffel coats, or I think the duffel coat might be British, but the p-coat fatigued.

And after the war, and this happened not only in the US, but in many Western nations like France and England, the government had to get rid of that clothing. So this stuff was sold at military surplus depots for very, very cheap.

And that became the uniform of people who could not afford nicer clothes,

but essentially imbued this kind of attire with meaning.

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