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American Prestige

Bonus - The Insurrection Act, Trump, and the Crisis of Civil Authority w/ Joshua Braver (Preview)

American Prestige

Daniel Bessner & Derek Davison

History, Politics, News

4.8705 Ratings

🗓️ 19 October 2025

⏱️ 11 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Subscribe now for the full episode and access to all of our Sunday bonuses! Danny and Derek speak with Joshua Braver, assistant professor of law at the University of Wisconsin, about Trump’s threat to invoke the Insurrection Act. They discuss the president’s power to federalize the National Guard, the Posse Comitatus Act, the limits of judicial deference, Trump’s schizophrenic relationship to the law, the weakness of the liberal legal establishment, why the Great Recession didn’t produce a New Deal moment, and what it means when the only thing left to restrain the executive is the executive itself.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

So we'll probably start there. So Joshua, I think maybe for people who kind of are aware that Trump has been deploying the military or the National Guard at home, could you just give a breakdown on what is actually happening for a semi-confusing thing?

0:18.7

Sure, it's very confusing.

0:23.7

Essentially, the president has tried to federalize the National Guard and deploy them into three cities, into Portland, into Chicago,

0:32.4

and into Los Angeles. On a day-to-day basis, the National Guard are commanded by state

0:38.3

governors. You know, they work part-time. They're called up when there's a natural disaster.

0:44.4

But the president has the power under certain circumstances to put them in what's called

0:49.3

Title X status or federalize them. And then they're no longer under the command of the governor.

0:53.9

They're under the command of the president.

0:55.6

And he's trying to use them to protect or perhaps participate in the activities of

1:04.4

ICE enforcement in deportation raids.

1:08.6

So a basic question, what is the law and legal theory behind this? Is it at the presidential

1:13.9

discretion like much of the rest of our system? The president in theory has the executive authority

1:18.8

to just do this. Maybe you could explain a little bit without getting too technical, the actual

1:23.1

legal thing that is happening here. Sure, at a first cut, at least. I'll keep it simple.

1:28.7

But the president has, under three circumstances, can federalize the National Guard.

1:34.8

When there's an invasion or a danger of invasion, when there's a rebellion or a danger of rebellion,

1:41.2

or when he's unable with the regular forces to execute the laws. The president

1:47.1

is not claiming, and his lawyers are not claiming there's an invasion. They're claiming there's

1:50.7

a rebellion, or they're claiming that with unable with regular forces to execute the laws. The

1:55.8

laws here being are laws around deportation and immigration. So I want to distinguish and maybe, you know,

2:05.1

it seems incoherent the way Trump talks about it.

2:08.6

Everything seems incoherent the way he talks about it, I guess.

...

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