The Telegraph.

I'm Francis Dernley and this is Ukraine, the latest.

Today, in a special bonus episode, I bring you a panel I recently moderated at the Frontline Club in London,

a renowned meeting place for anyone

passionate about foreign affairs, hosting regular events with guests from think tanks, journalism,

the humanitarian sector, and many more. The discussion features leading experts on various

aspects of the conflict. Christopher Miller, chief Ukraine correspondent at the Financial Times,

Dr Jack Watling, Senior Research Fellow for Land Warfare at the Royal United Services Institute,

and Eurycia Lutsavich OBE, head of the Ukraine Forum at Chatham House.

Though recorded a few weeks ago, the conversation feels not just relevant, but prescient in light of recent developments.

Topics include what security guarantees Ukraine wants versus what it needs, the manpower challenges

facing both Russia and Ukraine, the levers available to pressure Moscow, how a ceasefire can

either be a remedy or a poison depending on its terms,

the declining American role and Europe's response, hybrid threats across the continent,

and the terrifying cost of equivocation. My thanks to the frontline club, you can support their

work or become a member by following a link in the show

notes. But now, over to our conversation. So let's dive in then, security guarantees, ERISA.

What does Ukraine want? And perhaps, as a glory to that, what does it need? Never again is something

that was a slogan after the First World War,

second World War, we said never again the war.

And Russia said their slogan is we can repeat.

They are here to repeat great world wars as they presented

...